How to Ignite Ownership with Bruno Guévremont | Episode 4

In this Cultivate Your Culture article, Zoran is joined by Bruno Guévremont. Bruno builds and rebuilds elite performers. He continues to inspire greatness on battlefields and in boardrooms, building high-performance leaders and organizations in every arena he enters, rekindling and sparkling greatness, bridging generations and connecting those in uniforms with those in power suits. Today, Bruno helps high-profile CEOs, executives, managers, and organizations navigate a clear path to their next level of greatness. Sustainable peak performance is achievable, and Bruno will take you there.

This article is the transcript of a podcast done regularly by Zoran Stojković. Listen to Cultivate Your Culture. Please excuse any transcript errors in this article.

Zoran Stojkovic: Hello, I’m your host, Zoran Stojkovic and welcome to cultivate your culture. This podcast we’ll be discussing how leaders can build connected high performing teams and business in sport using actionable tools, evidence based systems and simple processes. Today on this show, we have Bruno Guvremont. And Bruno builds and rebuilds elite performers. He continues to inspire greatness on battlefields and in boardrooms, building high performance leaders and organizations in every arena he enters, rekindling and sparkling greatness, bridging generations and connecting those in uniforms with those in power suits. Today, Bruno helps high-profile CEOs, executives, managers, and organizations navigate a clear path to their next level of greatness. Sustainable peak performance is achievable, and Bruno will take you there. Bruno, my friend, how are you doing?

Bruno Guevremont: I’m very good Zoran. Thank you very much for having me today.

Zoran Stojkovic: Yeah, thank you for taking the time to speak to our listeners. Can you tell us a little bit about your journey? Because you have quite a fascinating story. And I’d love to hear it.

Bruno Guevremont: Oh, yeah, absolutely. You know, what it’s it is quite, you know, there’s this great address that Steve Jobs did that it says you can only connect the dots looking backward. And basically was as you go through your life, you don’t realize the amount of things you’re either achieved, or which fork in the road led you to, to to where you’re going. But as you look back, you can see that. So basically, it you know, if I would tell my journey, I was very fortunate grew up in Quebec, in a French family, I got to travel there, when I was a kid, I was 10 years old, I went and lived in Zaire now is the decrement, Democratic Republic of the Congo. And it was kind of an eye-opener. And from there, I decided that I was going to serve pretty much all my life in different roles. And then I joined the military. And I got to do 15 years there, did some really very exciting stuff exactly what they were advertising on TV is basically, you know, do more before 530 than everybody does all day. And, you know, I got to jump out of planes dive underwater, learn about explosives, weapons, everything two tours in Afghanistan. It was very, very, a very good platform for somebody who was looking for himself and was looking for direction in life. And then after that, I decided to open my own gym ran that for five years. And then I noticed that my impact as a coach was more powerful off the floor than on the floor. Because the work that we do as trainers, as Physical Fitness Trainers, the work that we do actually is very effective off the floor. You know, because everybody could work out like as you know, everybody could workouts everywhere out there on the internet. It’s free. It’s all these things, but it’s why they’re not working out or what do they need to feel like what they’re doing is good. And I think we’ll talk about that today without going any further. But I was very, very lucky. I got to be team captain for the Invictus teams, for Team Canada, with Prince Harry, and I got to travel and didn’t do an expedition to the North Pole.

That’s where I met all those business leaders and started learning about the corporate world and what was needed out there. And then here we are today running my own business and, you know, executive coach and consultant, and, and helping veterans and people from mental health. I’m a bill that stuck. Ambassador, opening up the conversation about mental health.

Zoran Stojkovic: That’s an impressive, man. That’s quite an impressive background. Wow. And the North Pole thing is just like “Hey, you know, I’ve been to the North Pole, right?” It’s like.

Bruno Guevremont: Funny enough, unless people bring it up. I wouldn’t bring that up in the conversation. The way that you put it. “Hey, just so you know, my name is Bruno, I’ve been to the North Pole”.

Zoran Stojkovic: That’s a great conversation starter makes them memorable makes you very memorable. So Bruno, you’ve been part of teams, and you’ve you you helped shape cultures. So I’m wondering how do you define team culture? What does that mean to you?

Bruno Guevremont: Oh, man, that is such a good question. How do we define culture? Right? How do we define culture in today’s world, especially from different generations, because at every at every turn, we have what this culture means. So now when we read books, you and I, we were you know, we constantly reading books, we’re constantly working on our growth, we’re doing these things. But the thing is, is that you know, the culture that was even five years ago is not the same culture today. Now in the workplace. It’s not the same culture in teams. There’s a dynamic that change. You know, a perfect example is when you’re looking at the Netflix documentary called the what is it the last dance with Michael Jordan, you can see the dynamics of culture back then. And today, even, you know what they say some people attributed to fashion to music to everything that’s there. So is that all encompassing in culture? What I like to find is when I go into an organization, is that what is the culture of the team? And is there one, and what’s also the call the culture of the, the organization? Right? So, you know, perfect example, Lulu Lemon, right. So Lulu Lemon has a great culture, great mission statement. They’re doing great things out there. But also their team struggles, because they’re composed of human beings and human beings all have their own culture and their own background and all wants to narrow needs. Now, how do we make the to happen? Right, because as a team, you need to come together? And which one do you affect first? Right? How do we determine what’s the culture? And is this going to serve the mission statement? Or our goals? And and that’s how I established this? Because I find today, nobody discusses their definition of Does that make sense? So you need to elicit that from your team, you need to elicit that from your athletes from your, from your team players from your high performance, what is your culture? What do you mean by culture? And what brick? What does culture bring to your organization as well? Right? Because when we’re reading books, like catching fire, you know, a book about the flow of in the workplace, and they use Silicon Valley. And they also use the SEAL Team Six, which I can speak on both right, being in the military, and then also being in the corporate world, and says, How did these cross train and bring and exchange pieces of culture? Because they all have good points? So it depends on what you want to do with it. Does that answer the question?

Zoran Stojkovic: It definitely does. So one thing I found, there’s a lot of gems in there. But one thing that spoke to me was this how, what are the personal values of an individual? And then what are the team values? And then now you’re talking about organizational values? And I mean, do those have to be in alignment Bruno? Like, do those have to be in integrity? Like do people have to live there? You know, pick organizations to work in that are in alignment and click with their personal values?

Bruno Guevremont: Once again, Zoran, you’re coming out some some golden questions over here. That’s amazing. That’s awesome. Good question. Absolutely. Here’s what I’m going to tell you. The thing is, is that we have organizations that are out there, especially with the transition of generations now. Right? The, the Okay, boomers, the boomers are getting out Generation X, my generation are fully in there, the CEOs, now they’re coming on these things. And then we have generation Zed, I think and millennials. And now I’m not too sure which one, the new one is called. But basically, how do you want somebody to adopt your values and your beliefs if you don’t understand theirs? Does that make sense? Right. And most people, younger people, we’re going to say, right, because we’re probably going to have some discussion about, you know, coaches, and CEOs and team leaders and all these things and working our way down. But the thing is, is that if you if the person was in front of you, and this is one of the things that I noticed in organization in the younger generation, is that I asked them about their beliefs and values, and most of them. And I’m not saying all of them, obviously, aren’t too sure how to answer that, because they’re not aware of what a dose things and then when you explain once again, to education, through guidance, mentoring, you explain to them what it does, and then they actually realize what their values and beliefs are. Now, when somebody has that power, and realizes what it means and what it should look like, and what it would be, then when you do implement your team values, and then your organizational values. Now they’re way more bought in. Does that make sense? Because now they understand they’re not just not taking your word for it. And I’m finding that there’s a lot of flack for that, oh, you should know what values are. And here’s the mission statement on the poster on the wall, and go ahead and, and make this organization great. But there needs to be at just a little bit more of a discussion around these things. And if the person if you want them to adopt your values as an organization, then I believe that it needs to align. And I think that’s, that’s done at the interviews. process. Right. And you got to make sure that they’re aligned, or can they align as well.

Zoran Stojkovic: Yeah, that’s, that’s huge. And so when you’re talking about it is important to build this culture and to only lead people into the culture who you think can align with it and for you as an individual to work and be part of organizations and movements that are in alignment with and in synergy with who you are. Why is it important to cultivate the culture of a team in business or sports?

Bruno Guevremont: Why is it important? Well, the reason why it would be important, it goes with the mission, right? It goes into how what kind of environment you want to produce, you know, we’re seeing this. And maybe it is because of, you know, I’m a little bit older, and I work in this. And I’ve worked in the service industry and the customer service and all these things. But we’re finding, there’s less and less of that everybody’s very, to the point, let’s get it, I can buy for Amazon, there’s no need to talk to anybody, they know these things. But then when something goes wrong, they want to talk to an a human, right, because now something’s wrong. Now you need to pay attention to me, and I want you to talk to a human and then your dog goes with your culture, that’s important. Because the person that’s going to do this customer service for you, is representing your organization. And if they’re not bought into the culture to everything you’ve been on those calls, or everybody has, where the person on the other end doesn’t care, right? And then, and then you’re like screaming at them or something like that, or, you know, and escalate that way. And it’s because the employees aren’t understanding the culture, they’re not understanding what needs to be done. Once again, people are getting hired today, there’s less than less training, there’s less taken under, like, I had these discussions with different types of CEOs out there. And we were talking and they were always coming out. One of the recurrent theme was the new kids coming in, they don’t have any work ethics. They’re not driven by climbing the ladder and all these things. And I’m like, okay, so Well, let me ask you a question. Did when you came in at the bottom rung, let’s talk about the ladder, did somebody take you under their wing, and mentored you and guided you and showed you work ethics and everything? Where did you learn your work ethics? And then they reflect and they go, Well, you know, it started with my father, and then went to this and then went to that, and I learned from this guy and all these, okay, I said, Okay, so are you providing that for these new kids? Is there somebody mentoring them, and all these things? And then they go, Oh, wait a minute. No, no, they’re not right. Or maybe there is right? It depends on the organization, obviously. But that’s all part of the culture. It’s all part of your mission statement. Right? Everybody’s everything. So mechanics right now. Because, you know, there’s so many books, there’s so many people out there and they’re saying, Okay, well, you know, from from zero, the great from bootstrapping, for 100 bucks, or, you know, Guy Kawasaki are all these guys. And they go through the list. And they affect that without taking a breeder and realizing about the people who are working for them. The people who compose the organization, that’s your culture. Does that make sense?

Zoran Stojkovic: Yeah, does.

Bruno Guevremont: Culture means people.

Zoran Stojkovic: Culture means people, and what I’m hearing you say is, it’s important to mentor those people to support them, to listen to them, because at the end, it is going to move the bottom line up, isn’t it?

Bruno Guevremont: That’s what’s gonna make you successful.

Zoran Stojkovic: That’s it, that’s a byproduct. And essentially, it makes results, better results more likely, in a team doesn’t it because when you bond before battle, you battle well together,

Bruno Guevremont: When the time when the times are gonna get tough, your culture is going to get through through, get you, your organization through those tough times. But also, it’s a domino effect. If the top takes care of the bottom, like, you know, all the way down. And then the people who are facing the clients are all also going to reflect that. Right? I can pretty sure right now ask you do you which place do you like to go shopping? And why? Or which place do you like to go eat and why? And all these things, it’s because it’s, it’s a cross, like when I ran my gym, now, it was a CrossFit gym, which was on every corner, right? There was a CrossFit everywhere. And it was like their phase, and it was crazy. And everything. I did CrossFit for 12 years, and I ran my gym for five years now, I had been to many, many gyms around the world, everywhere I’d go, I go to a new gym to see how they were, where were they doing great, where were they doing good? What were they doing that? And you know, kind of say how can I improve my product innovation, all these things? And the thing is, is what I realized was and CrossFit really had captured the culture part. Because you know, if something you know the joke out there, you know if you’re a vegan and a crossfader, which one do you tell first? Right? Everybody told you, right? You knew a crossfitter was in a room because gime him five minutes, they’ll tell you. That’s right. So basically.

Zoran Stojkovic: Referrals, word of mouth.

Bruno Guevremont: Exactly word of mouth and everything everybody knew, but I knew that I also had listen to what people didn’t like about the culture. Like everybody had their shirts off, it was dirty. It was all these things. So I made sure that everybody kept their shirts at my gym. Everybody, you know, put the equipment back and took care of the equipment and wipe the equipment down with Lysol wipes and wood everything even before the whole COVID thing. So my gym was really clean was always organized. My coaches knew what to do. Everything was ran like a real business. And what that in turn did is that it made the gym extremely successful because people wanted to stay people wanted to come back and the word of mouth was I never did marketing. I I attempted it with people like to say, well, maybe it’ll bring more. But all it brought more was just the people that we didn’t want, right? Like the groupons, and all these things, everything else was word of mouth. And I’m going to tell you that is the best out there that a reflector of your culture basically what it is.

Zoran Stojkovic: Yeah, because people bring in people like themselves. And and that’s what you ultimately want more of you want more of those people. And so when we’re talking about organizations, sports teams, businesses, how can culture be cultivated Bruno? And like what’s what’s the starting place? Who has to sit in on these conversations?

Bruno Guevremont: Right, right. Well, it depends on the type of organizations you have, right? And how many levels and if you have supervisors and everything, but somebody in a leadership role should be driving this culture, right, it should come from, you know, from the top down, obviously, and I don’t like using that analogy, but right now in the way that things are ran, it’s what it is. So basically, the CEO, and the board establishes what they want, you know, with the products, they’re selling, what they think and what is the culture going to be. Now, once that is being, you know, established, obviously, they started the company and everything as they hired the hiring process, you hired somebody who’s going to fit within your culture, but at the same time, this needs to be a two way street. What does the call that the the core group wants as well as in a culture, right? And, and, and building out from there and it will evolve, it needs to evolve, it needs to change, nothing stays the same. And if you need to have those conversation, really open hearted conversation with your people at all levels, about what the culture represent. Because we’ve seen it we’ve seen you remember the time where, you know, Facebook started, and it was beanbags everywhere. And it was you know, and what was Mark Zuckerberg motto at a time, move fast break things. But now if you ask him the same thing, he’s like, let’s let’s move fast. Let’s do things. Right, right. And so the culture has evolved, and that’s changed. And the beanbags change for pods and for other things. And they’re constantly evolving. And that’s because they’re having open discussion about what it should be and evolving the culture with that nothing is set in stone when it comes to that, because we’re dealing once again with human beings.

Zoran Stojkovic: Yeah, you’re that’s quite interesting that you mentioned a team that’s starting up or an organization that’s starting up and kind of going top down in existing organizations, I think, I don’t know if it has to be top down. You know, like Simon Sinek says, be the leader you always wish you had. And I think people have people are afraid to do things. And people don’t do things. And everybody within an organization has a big influence or not a big influence, but it has it has influence over the culture. And they’re part of the part of the puzzle. I think if somebody wants to see a change, they should just make it happen. And then ask questions later and apologize later, if they know if they mess up. And if it works, great, share it.

Bruno Guevremont: And you’re absolutely right. The thing is, is that you brought up your own language, you said, Simon Sinek says, you know, be the leader you want to see in the world. And then you said people are afraid to do things or to bring up things and ever. Well, that’ the culture, why are the afraid? Because you’v established that why are the afraid to bring something up Right? So so that’s part of th culture, those are th conversation you need to have right? Everybody in today’ world because of the way tha social media was designed an continues to move on, are no more worried about what othe people are going to think about How do we test that? Well, yo know, when you ask people an I’m going to be out, go out o the limb here to dance naked i their living rooms, they go, No I’m not going to do that. Wha in case if the neighbor sees m through the window, they’re i their own house and they’re no doing it? You understand wha I’m saying? So people, that’ what you need to elicit fro people. So now if people ar afraid to say on how they ca improve, which to me should b your number one, you always g to your frontline people, what’ working really well what’ working good and what’s no working? What could we d better? And right now in bi organization, that’s no happening. The conversation is is mostly one one way it’s no coming up. Other organizations though. I’ve heard recentl talking to a mentor of mine that they’re doing revers mentoring that actually CEOs an C level suite executive ar asking the brand new peopl coming in and door can yo mentor me on the culture well and that to me is telling m somebody who’s listenin somewher

Zoran Stojkovic: The person choosing to be reverse mentored would have to be very humble. And I think that’s that’s a very that’s a that’s the way to do it. Because we all learn from each other, don’t we?

Bruno Guevremont: Humble, humble…I find it funny that you use that word well. Yeah, somebody would need to be humble and

Zoran Stojkovic: Well, I mean, just like not let the ego get in the way and say, oh, I’ve been in the business for 40 years, you’re not gonna tell me you’re gonna tell me how to how to run a culture.

Bruno Guevremont: Be a regular, compassionate human human? [LAUGHTER] Is that what you meant by being humble? Yeah. You mean being open about growth on a daily basis?

Zoran Stojkovic: Open? vulnerable?

Bruno Guevremont: Wow, you’re throwing some big words out.

Zoran Stojkovic: Yeah, man. big words is about reverse mentoring you talking about asking people how they’re doing. what’s working, what’s not. So that now we’re talking about measuring and assessing team culture, which is very can be very lucid and airy fairy and people objective and yeah,

Bruno Guevremont: Totally, absolutely.

Zoran Stojkovic: People don’t think that we can put a pin on it. But how? How can leaders measure and assess team culture? Bruno, as you’re mentioning, you’re already ahead of me a little bit with this, in that, you say, Okay, you got to met, you got to ask. And then you gotta you got to change things. Like you gotta you got to do something different with do something with the data. So how, what do you think measuring, assessing?

Bruno Guevremont: Well, that’s the thing, right? So if we came up with we took culture, right? And we said, okay, what do we want? is always my first go to question what do you want? Like, when you say culture? What does that mean to you and try to understand, I’m always any client, I mean, whether it’s an individual, an organization, a team, whatever, I always ask, what do they want? Right? Because then it’s gonna give you and with other questions around that it’s going to give me a picture of their model of their world, their beliefs, their values, how do they see this organization out? They see outside or they see, you know, I asked them, you know, what does a purple giraffe with orange polka dot looks like, right? Because I’m seeing where they’re accessing the information. They’re doing all these things now, too. I said, Okay, so what are what do you need to make this your What happened? Right? So what do you need? And then the powerful question is, how will you know you have it? So how will we know as an organization, we’ve reached that. And once again, the thing about metrics and measurement is that people go back to the books and they go, Okay, well, a key point indicator, or, you know, key performance indicator KPI is going to be like, boom, this is what we got here. So it should be right, it’s easy in fitness, you know, you’re either losing weight, you’re lifting more, you’re faster. You’re so that’s all right. And in business, they go by the bottom line cost, what are we saving? What you know, what, what are they got different metrics, but when you come to humans, right to human beings as something as elusive, like you said, fluid and subjective as culture, then you establish your metric that everybody can measure by. So you ask those, how will when or how will we know we have achieved our goals for our culture? Does that make any sense?

Zoran Stojkovic: Yes, it does. So, what do you need or where do you want to go? What do you want? And then how will you know that you have it in the sense that like, that’s the success measure?

Bruno Guevremont: That’s the success measure right there. Right me for my clients, whether it’s an individual or a business? That’s how I establish understanding, when will they know as a client? When will you know you have it? Now, if they come up with something? Well, you know, I want a red car, right? Obviously, I’ll walk them down to finding out why they want that red car, right? Because it’s going to bring me to the actual what they’re looking for, right what they actually want. But the thing is, is that that would be too easy. If the person or the team stays at their surface, they said, Well, you know, it’s when we reach 50,000 a month of sales, well, then that’s too easy to establish, there’s no brain power than with the news here. We just say it’s 50,000. It’s great. It’s awesome. But if you say okay, as a culture, what do you want as an organization? What does work coming to work look like for you? Right? And what do we need to make that happen for you? Right? So for let’s go back to Facebook, it was pods. It was working from home, it was working remote. It was, you know, I want this much thing. Okay. That’s our culture. Oh, great. Okay, how will we know we have that? When we have the pods when we have people working from home, when we have these things and productivity goes up? Lucky for us in a certain way. COVID has actually pushed that because a lot of CEOs were saying What is it with these kids, they want to work from home, they want to go travel, they want to they see how much time they can get off and do these things. And I said, I need them chained to a desk because I know that I can control that productivity. All of a sudden they go home, the rent goes down, cost goes down, productivity goes up because people stay in pajamas. They can’t they don’t need to go to traffic to face all of that stuff outside. So once again, it’s this dance that needs to happen between the generations the way of seeing things and a lot of perceptual positioning here that needs to happen on all levels. What is you know, what does the boss mean by that and what does the employee sees when I say so? Something like that. Let me bring you back around a little bit with the military, if I can use this, because we’re going to talk about subjective and how things are run. And it should be a two way street. But when you have a big organization, you need some order and some discipline and ways to do things and some structure and guidance and what we call standard operating procedures and all these things. And this is the way it is to, to ensure standardization all across, we understand that right. So up till now. So when you first joined the military, you within the ranks, so you basically follow orders, you you you dress, the way they tell you, you do these things, but every level that you go up, these things change. Does that make sense? So as you go up in rank, and also as you go up in specialty, so let’s say you were talking about here, you know, reki paratrooper and then you go up to snipers and, and then you go up to special forces and clearance divers and counter ID and you know, all these special teams, what happens is that it’s still you’re still in the military, you’re still following orders, you’re doing this safe, there’s just a better back and forth. Because now people know who you are. They know that you’re dedicated. They know your standards, they know that you keep yourself at a higher standard, they know that you’re a professional, they know that you’re these things. So it comes down to first name basis, right? It comes down to like you were asking about my beard. Now they can grow beard, their hairs longer, they’re more left on their own, because they said you know what we don’t need to do to look after all these things. Because we don’t need to keep these people in line. These people already know what to do. Right? So now bring that back into the organization’s any organization at the beginning when everybody comes in, and when there’s a lot of people that needs to be structured and standardized. But at one point, it needs to also be a back and forth. How am I doing as a supervisor? Is it working? Right? And then it needs to go? It’s, you know, like, performance evaluation doesn’t always go down. It should also come back up. Right? And not a lot of organizations do that. But the ones that do are actually very successful.

Zoran Stojkovic: Absolutely. So you’re…

Bruno Guevremont: Went on a little bit of a rant there.

Zoran Stojkovic: Oh, no, I love it. I love it. There’s a lot of a lot of nuggets in there a lot of golden nuggets in there. And it seems like you you are and you have helped shaped team cultures. I’m wondering about how how you’ve done that. And what is it specifically that you that you do when you go into these organizations?

Bruno Guevremont: Oh, well, now you’re asking for Colonel Sanders 57 spice recipe. [LAUGHER] Did you call Tim Cook to ask him how he makes the iPhone?

Zoran Stojkovic: That’s the next episode.

Bruno Guevremont: Absolutely. No, no, no, it’s it’s absolutely open source. It’s out there. Basically, when I go in one of my first trick, and that’s for any coaches out there any professional practitioners or whoever you are, I suggest doing something like this before you enter a room, especially if you are called to watch this fix something right. Company calls you in Q3. They want you to make them ready for Q4 because they haven’t reached their goals, all these things? Where are you going? Most people will walk in and say okay, I gotta go fix these problems. When I walk into a room. I’m there’s one, there’s nothing to fix to everybody in that room has the solution. Right? Compared to everybody in that room has a problem. Everybody in that room has a solution. So that sets me up already in a different mindset. Then I walk in there, and then I elicit questions about what it is that they’re looking for. But I also within my questioning, I question their values and beliefs, personal ones, because now I can understand how they see things. And all I need to do is for them to let’s take for example, the dilemma like right when I went to the store, I had 12 individuals were like, but we had 12 individuals going in 12 different direction thinking they’re all following this mission statement. Right? But nobody, nobody thought about checking. So I checked I said what does that mean to you? What is this mean? Half of them didn’t know it. The other half not too sure. And all these things. So now we’re figuring out what’s happening, right? And then what I did for them so i did and i reestablish and reframe so at first I did it for them personally with the team. What are your goals? Well what do you mean? I thought we’re working on the store or the company goal? Yeah, but let’s first let’s start with yours. What are your goals? What are your values, your beliefs and everything and elicit that and really clarify that and get them to work on that? Because somebody who has goals somebody has direction is driven. Right? So now they’re driven personally driven in their family. So what and you know, I heard that from from a mentor of mine, he says what you want is your organization to hire multiple meaning organizations, right? They want you want to hire people running as entrepreneur with In your business, right? They’re driven, they want more things they want to see they reach their goals and all these things. So every time that I have staff or I have people working with me, I promote them. Like I said, I’m What do you want? What do you? What do you need? How will we know we get there? What are your goals? What are your things, and then I drive that once they understand the process of creating goal of creating that culture of creating all that, then what happens is that they understand how to do it for the store for the organization. That’s exactly what it is. So at that point down, you can do a reframe, what does it mean for you now to work for this organization, because at the beginning, nobody wanted to buy a new car, or a new summer home or whatever, for the evil people at the top. But the thing they weren’t seeing is that they were making themselves suffer, just to not provide that for these people. So now what I did is that I reframed that, and I said, No, actually, you’re working for you here. Right? You got student debts, you want to travel, you want to do these things. Let’s make that happen. And then so it was just a reframe a switch in the mindset of why am I in this organization? Because when I asked them, Why are you working for Lululemon? They said it’s the coolest company out there. But it was there was some incongruency there about working for the coolest company out there. And what does it mean to court for the coolest company out? Right?

Zoran Stojkovic: Yes.

Bruno Guevremont: Does that make sense?

Zoran Stojkovic: Values and behaviors weren’t aligning. And the way you helped shape some of these organizations is by going in and asking some of those tough questions, getting people to question their values, getting people to understand more about themselves, and then how they fit into contributing towards the company’s mission, but also towards their own personal mission and objectives.

Bruno Guevremont: Right. Align your personal mission and objective with the company’s mission and objective like right, align yourself with that. That’s where we were talking to at the beginning of the podcast, how did these align? Well, if the person you’re hiring, is brand new, we’re talking in their early 20s. Here, brand new into the workforce doing these things, they just finished a degree or something like that. And now they’re ready to take on the world. Right? If you don’t, if you’re not looking at what if your values are aligning, if that’s going to work? That’s why there’s so much kind of like head butting right now. There’s so much divisiveness and a gap in the generations, which I’m lucky because that established me has the bridge, right? [LAUGHER]

Zoran Stojkovic: Oh, man, I love your stories. And we’ve touched up on a couple of well, not a couple, like a bunch of really good things that really good cultures are made of but what behaviors are toxic for Team culture? And how how have you dealt with them? And how do you equip leaders to deal with them? When they come up?

Bruno Guevremont: Oh, wow. Yeah, no, no, no, no. So obviously, in every environment, and, and, and even more so today, right, with everything that’s going on with COVID, with the elections in the States and Canada, across the world, everybody’s kind of like, you know, is is is listening to these shift, let’s just say throughout the world, and at the basic of everything. Everybody wants to belong to a tribe. That’s the only way we’ve survived tree history. Now they’re trying to put themselves in a tribe, especially when you’re a young person coming into your organization after finishing University. And we know what goes on in the university these days lately, right about all these different groups and factions and all these things. So you know, and then now they’re in the workplace, and they’re finding it’s a totally different world, right? And now, it’s different generations. And it’s different point of view. And it’s different thinking, and it’s different. So what do we do there? Right? How do we bring that up? And what was your question again, so that we go there?

Zoran Stojkovic: What are toxic behaviors? toxic behavior and team culture? And how, how have you dealt with them? Or how have you equipped leaders to deal with them?

Bruno Guevremont: Mm hmm. So I was lucky in my organizations like I, my gym, and all these things, we didn’t have any of that. Because once you start understanding your people’s worlds and their needs and their wants, and their beliefs and values, it kind of eliminates that. Because if you ask those kinds of question, the person that you’re asking these types of question, not just questions about, do you want to get the job and you know, like this typical, you know, panel interviews, or whatever that is, you’re asking question, like, you’re actually for real care about them. Most people will kind of align with you’re like, Man, these people care, and they, they really, they really want to do something good here, and then kind of like shift and and mold themselves to the organization to fit within that because it’s a good tribe. That makes sense. There’s a really good book out there called tribes by Sebastian younger. He starts with the Native American native, the natives and then he goes up to the military, and he followed the US military, true, Iraq, Afghanistan, all these things and he talks about the Bosnian wars and all these things and how people are always looking for a tribe to belong, and why it’s mind blowing. It’s really Fascinating, especially about psychology of organization is really good for that. But a toxic environment, you need to address that right away. We see that lately, if I can say this when people that they’re not too sure about how to address now people with genders, write his there’s, there’s them all these things. So what’s happening is that there’s some people that don’t want to deal with that, right? There’s the older generation says, I don’t understand, I don’t want to deal with that. So they’re not learning about it, they’re not educating themselves. On the other hand, you have the people that are coming up with this, that are coming in with a chip on their shoulders, and they’re just looking for people to use the wrong pronoun. Right? And you’re like, dude, you’re already walking in, head down. fists up, like, you know, I’m saying like, because now you’re, all you need is you’re already your fuse is already lit. The only thing we’re needing now is somebody to address you the wrong way. Right. So now that’s create toxicity. But what I’ve seen when I go into organizations, and I talk to people is that this kind of gets put aside and everything when you genuinely ask and care about your people, and you create that culture that is open that isn’t, but right now, people aren’t having discussions on it. They’re not sitting down. People are afraid to talk about tough things. They’re afraid to talk about tough topics and ask tough questions and everything like look at what has happened since the me to movement toxicity of masculine energy and everything. Now men do not want to be in boardrooms alone with women, they don’t want to go on business trip with women again, they actually now do not want to be to understand the same they’re changing the way that they’re operating at work, because of what’s happening. That creates a toxic environment. How do we stop that? Right? And that might be a topic right now, for some of your listeners that are listening. That’s a difficult topic. How do we address that? Just like the where we’re doing? Let’s have a discussion about please educate me on what you’re seeing what your you know, your model of the world is so that I can learn? And then I will tell you about my model of the world? And where’s Where can we meet so that we can both live happily? And I think that those are the discussions that are not happening, right. It’s on you to open up these conversations.

Zoran Stojkovic: Yeah, it is. It is and understanding like interrogating reality together, like what is the reality of the situation? And then understanding the different perspectives, and then actually doing something about it. Like, how will we know when we’ve made the change that we want to make? And then Okay, cool. what’s the what’s the most potent step we can take tomorrow to go towards that change? Because that’s what it’s about, we can have these conversations all we want runo. But if something doesn’t get done, if there’s no action that gets put in place consistently, we’re not we’re not going to get anywhere. And they say it’s better to do a little a lot than a lot a little.

Bruno Guevremont: Mm hmm.

Zoran Stojkovic: Right. So you know, these teams will go on on retreats. They’ll have team building exercises, like once a year. And it’s like, no, that doesn’t work. It’s like, what are you doing on a daily basis? How are your communication? What channels are you communicating through? You know, are you doing check ins with your employees? And that’s massive? And doing that very frequently? How are you reminding people what the values of the company are? How are you as a CEO living the values of the company. Okay, one of our values is respect, all right. Late to every meeting,

Bruno Guevremont: Right. And we do that right, in the logical levels of thinking right? Now, who the why the show how the what the what, know, when and where, and all these things, and we go down there. A lot of times, you know, the C suite executives and everything, they got the vision, and they’re on it, because they create it and they’re like, you know, in it, when when you start going down on the workers and all these things, they’re caught in the what and where and how and all these things, and they get lost in the weeds. And sometimes, they’re there, their eyes are pulled away from the vision. So that’s when the momentum starts slowing down. That’s when things are all these if you don’t have constant, and I’m not talking about micromanaging here, I’m not talking about constantly getting a feedback or something like that. But if you don’t have any check ins and saying, Hey, guys, are you still seeing this? Are we still on that when productivity goes down? What’s happening? And that’s once again, part of how you build a culture right? So saying, Hey, man, we got our eyes is off the prize right? Or the guys at the top they’re always seem that I can speak to that because I’m a big picture kind of guy. So I’m way I’m always up there in the in the, the why the who and all that. But you know, they don’t know what’s happening down below. So people that are running and problems and everything and saying they’re stuck and things aren’t getting done. There’s a lot of frustration teams aren’t working together different departments. And then somehow the people at the top don’t even know about that. And they’re like division is here. We’re going this way to go in this way, but they don’t know that they lost the wheel on their vehicle, right? They don’t know that, you know, the, the gas pump, the momentum of the is plugged. And so that that information is not coming back up because like you said earlier people are afraid to talk. I’ve been in no organization when you go in and you go, Okay, so we were supposed to achieve this on this date one didn’t happen. And then I go at every level and everybody says, Well, it was because of it. And and it knows sales. No, it was that. So everybody’s passing the buck. Nobody went to the person they’re waiting for to check, Hey, can I help you? What’s happening? Are you stuck? There’s no communication, no zero communication happening. And everybody says not my fault. It’s I’m waiting for it. I’m ready to go boss, right? Well, why didn’t you go check, right. And sometimes that’s what I miss about the military. That’s what I miss about this team cohesion, this whole thing of structure, the structure is that I need to know your job, you need to know my job because his something goes sideways, I need to know how to operate the radio. And you need to know how to operate my vehicle and all these things. And that’s what it is. So in the military, we have specialists, right? Like I was, I was a paratrooper as a weapon specialist of counter ID a diver, right. But the thing is, is that when I was on my small teams, counter ID digging bombs in Afghanistan, we had a electronic countermeasure guy, when a radio guy, we had a driver, we had two operators, myself, and on that we had a tactical exploitation team. We knew how to do everybody’s jobs. But we were specialists at one. Does that make sense? So if something goes down, we can take over, which did happen multiple times, right? So the thing is, is that in organization, it’s going to happen here, people are going to get sick, people are going to have family problems. Mental health is one of those COVID all that stuff. If you know that you’re waiting for it to send you to code or to send you the software. And it’s supposed to be here on this date. No, it’s not micromanaging, to go and check in and say, Hey, how are things going? Are we flowing? Are we going can I expect to get it that day? And to go? And if not, can I assist? Because another thing about having this type of communication? Once again, we’re talking still about culture right now, is what I found is that a lot of people were saying, well, it was struggling, or sales were struggling and everything and I said, Okay, how can we improve this situation? And the the answer came from another department. Oh, have you guys ever looked at doing something like this? And I was like, oh, man, that’s genius. And they were like, Yeah, but as somebody that’s not even in the problem, they were in a different position at the 30 feet 30,000 foot view and could see, oh, guys, have you thought about doing this? But everybody’s so worried about their value within the team? That they want to do it alone? Because if I don’t get it, then I don’t get the reward or I don’t maybe I’ll get fired. When once again, that’s part of the culture Zoran.

Zoran Stojkovic: Bruno, you’re you’re you’re tugging on a lot of cool ideas here. And you know, before you talked about fear of people’s opinions, FOPO in that instance, there’s this fear of people’s opinions. So people don’t say they haven’t done a certain thing, or the challenge that’s getting in the way or the blocker as they call it in the tech world. Like, what’s the blocker? Is it a person? Is it an external partner you’re waiting on? And what is going on with it? And how, you know, how can we accelerate it to go forward? But again, I think it really comes down to communication all the time, like because it’s ultimately about having these conversations. And then yeah, you go and do your work. But the conversations give us synergy and alignment. And they give us the tool like speaking and asking really good questions to the right people in the right ways. Give us the tools to change things, to question things, to do things better, to improve. And to the organization forward.

Bruno Guevremont: Communication within organizations is probably my number one issue. Every time I go into an organization. The flow of communication. Who do I talk to? Some people don’t even know they work for an organization for years. And they like I’m facing this problem. And who do you talk to? I don’t even know. That’s especially when the organization’s are bigger, multi-national. Right. We’re talking about that. And the thing is, is that Yeah, communication breakdown is the worse is is it happens all the time. And and this this attitude of, it’s not my problem. It’s somebody else. I’m here to do this job and not look at, you know, well, you know, that we’re our team, and we’re an organization I never, you know, as a young kid, I never understood these things, right? Did the strikes and the and I want more money and I want more of this and I want more of that. And I’m like, man, like what? You’re biting the hand that feeds here. How do we, how do we communicate what’s needed and most of the time, I’m going to tell you, especially with the new generations coming in, it’s not about money. They don’t want more money. They want to be challenged, they want to be significant. They want to be part of have a greater impact. They want to make bigger things they want to be able to, for the greater good. That’s the mentality today, it’s not for the gold watch to see, you know, it’s not for the status. It’s not for the, you know, for the pension, it’s it’s different drivers. And you need to be able to elicit that from your staff, from your people from your culture. That’s what’s that’s what create culture is for you to be fully immersed in it and say, What is it that you want and ask the questions earlier, you ask the question, how do people do that? How do leaders do that? And basically, I asked, I said, Well, have you asked, because there was a big turnover at one of the organizations that I was part of a big turnover of key ladies walking out. And I’m like, What’s going on here? These are all like all star players, and they’re all walking on a big mass exodus. And I said, What’s going on? Oh, they said, Well, you know, they’re looking for their jobs, and they wanted more pay and all these things. And I said, is that what they told you? Well, you know, they they mostly come up first one is more pay. And a second one, I don’t think that’s it. And after that, it was like, well, they wanted to have an impact. And they wanted to be challenged, and they wanted to be part of something bigger than themselves. I said, Did you offer those opportunities? And I said, Well, I don’t even know where to start. What are those opportunities, Bruno? And we’re talking about CEOs who are running multi million dollar companies. And I’m like, What about a meeting with a whiteboard? And you have your staff? How can we improve this business? How can we improve how we do things? Right? The immediate answer was why I ain’t got time for that I got 10 meetings with these shareholders and these things and all that. And I said, I get it. But do you have time to train new staff? How what’s your cost per acquisition? What? How much money? Are you losing here like that? Which Which one? Do you have time because you got to make time for one or the other. And everybody’s about acquisition, never about retention, and never about training and the cost and all these, not everybody again, you’re poor listeners, because I’m all over the place here. But the thing is, is this instead, well then pegs someone in a high position who can do that. And then you sit your staff, and it doesn’t matter what they’re saying, okay, and I’m not discarding what people are saying. But here’s what the whole gist of the exercise would do, is that you have a whiteboard, you ask people, how can we improve this business? How can we improve the culture? How can we make things better? And if Janet down the road says, I think on Mondays we should wear a yellow shirt? You write that stuff on the board? Right? You write it yellow shirts on Monday? Great move on, let’s go to the next one. Oh, I think we should have you know, these meetings, at least, you know, every quarter, if not every month would be great. And all these things. And you write that down on the board, you write out these things? Well, what does that show Zoran?

Zoran Stojkovic: Well, it shows that you know, what, you validate the idea, it shows that you understand that person’s challenge and reality.

Bruno Guevremont: You show them I am listening to you. I’m taking in your idea. And we’re putting it there, no matter what it sounds like, no matter what it looks like you put it on there. And then you ask the team, which one of these do you think is going to make the biggest impact? It’s going to move us forward? Which one of these can we action realistically, and they’re going to tell him and then the decision didn’t come for you to cut those, those other ones, that yellow shirt, whatever, it came from peers, it came from the team. And at the end of the day, as a C suite executive or as the CEO, you still make the decision. But what it showed is that I’m here, I’m listening. And then and then the people that you choose their ideas, what do you think they’re gonna do? Remember what I said significance? impact, they’re gonna go back home, tell all their family, put it on social media, it’s promoting your business is doing these things. Look at what I implemented in my organization today.

Zoran Stojkovic: Oh, they’re gonna feel great, they’re gonna feel energized, then.

Bruno Guevremont: How much did that cost you? Nothing?

Zoran Stojkovic: Nothing? Well, yeah, you’re an hour of your time and things like that. But what’s, what’s the benefit going to be? Well, it’s going to be huge. But if you actually do something about it, right, I mean, writing those ideas on the board and then not not actually making it happen, and maybe not allocating some more resources to, to bring in the yellow shirt Monday to life is, is gonna lose you more credibility. So one of my last questions for you Bruno here is what does cultivating your culture mean to you?

Bruno Guevremont: What does cultivating my culture mean to me? Caring about your people, making your organization a place that people wake up in the morning and want to come to work or work for you. It gets people to buy in. It gets people to be part of it, right? Everybody’s following like you know, the grant cardones The GaryVee all these guys. GaryVee said “if you can find somebody that is 40% bought into your company, like only at a 40% keep those because that means 40% of their time is going to be dedicated to your business.” Right. But I, you know, that’s a very easy, quick, you know, snippet out there. It looks nice on Pinterest, right? But the thing is, is that actually care for your people actually ask the questions that you know, are important. And the questions are important, aren’t in the business aren’t part of your MBA, they’re not part of your, you know, they’re not part of your coaching program. They’re part of you being a human being, you know, how’s your day going? What are your favorite hobbies? Do you have a partner? Do you have pets? Do you have things and actually listen? Right?

Zoran Stojkovic: Listening and then a week later saying, oh, how’s your dog doing? Hey, how are the kids? How’s your son daughter? How did the move go? But Bruno, that that’s what it comes down to? It’s not It’s not rocket science.

Bruno Guevremont: You know, there was this book written in, I think, 1930. How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie. read that book. It’s going to make you the best leader, it’s going to make you the best human out there. It’s going to be you’re going to read that book and say, Okay, I already do half of this. So now I understand what’s behind this is genuinely caring about the other person you’re talking to. And listening when intent like attentively, right, going like, Oh, wow. And reflecting what you’ve heard to them. That’s what the whiteboard does. Right? It’s just reflecting I have heard you, and I have taken in in consideration your idea. makes people feel great. Why would people leave work like that they leave work because bad leaders, bad managers, toxic environment. And everybody says, oh, it’ll fix itself. Okay, great, fantastic. If you can’t fix it, if it can’t fix itself, give me a call. [LAUGHTER]

Zoran Stojkovic: bruto you’re talking about really good, really good book here. And I’m wondering if there’s a there’s an another book or resource that has shaped your understanding of culture and leadership?

Bruno Guevremont: Oh, man, there’s so many so many. You know what, that is one of my favorite of how to actually be a really good human. You know, how to win friends and influence people. And here’s what I’m going to tell you the real story about that book, every time I would see it. I read it for the first time in 2015. Every time I would see that title, on the shelf, I was offended. How to Win Friends and Influence People think about that, um, like relation manipulation. I was like, what how? What do you mean, when friends, you make friends, you don’t win friends, and influence people? Right? That’s the nice word for manipulation. So I was actually driven away from that. But somebody you know, I have a rule of three. And some of my mentors, three of them told me to get the book. And I was like, how good could it be? It’s written in the 1930s. [LAUGHER] What did they know in the 1930s? [LAUGHER] Right? Well, it was one of the it’s one of the best books. other books are really, that are really, really good out there. You know, Joe dispenza, has got a couple Mike Dooley, he’s got some really good, I’m obviously really driven towards behaviors and patterns, right for myself. That’s what I do. Anything that has to do with mindset and performance that’s out there, but don’t get lost into that, because they’re very, it’s very easy to get lost into that and to buy in or drinking the Kool Aid or something like that. And be very mechanical about it. Very, right. And you know what I mean by that, right, you see them, you see those guys that are up there, and they’re telling you these bullet point things, and they’re saying, at the end of the day, even if I went to organizations that have multiple location, right, like, let’s say, Bell, right, by the way, right, the bell, that one of the biggest companies in Canada, one of the biggest employers everything, but every time I go to a certain place, either it’s Winnipeg or whatever, it’s a different culture. Even though that bell said, we have a culture within bell. It’s the people that are there. And every time I go there, even though I’m going there for mental health, people have their own problems, their own things, and then you got to elicit it from there. You got to to look. So yes, the books help the books get you to knowledge, the book gets you that, but how do you practice this is between you and I, and understanding you? Right? Because we could say, you know, people used to say that. You’ve seen one veteran, you send them all you’ve seen one athlete, you send them all No, actually you’ve seen one athlete, you’ve seen a podcaster you’ve seen them all know, you’ve seen one podcaster that’s all it is because that person does this podcast differently than the other guy even though if it’s the same topic or the same kind of direction. That’s the beauty of humanity. Right? Does that make sense? Like crossfit. CrossFit, there was five other gyms in Victoria. Mine was totally different from everybody else, right? Because of the way I did things.

Zoran Stojkovic: And I think it was Tony Robbins that said, knowledge isn’t power. execution is the power. And so reading and upgrading our knowledge, which is important, that’s the starting place, and then actually doing doing something about it, having a conversation, leading a conversation differently, leading a team meeting differently, talking about topics that are really hard to talk about, where it’s gonna get messy and fierce and challenging.

Bruno Guevremont: Well, that’s it right. People are afraid to say things, people are afraid to do things and what’s going to come back. But let me give you another little secret about Tony. Because as you know, I’ve trained with Tony, I’ve worked with him. I’ve been to Fiji. I’ve been to Date with Destiny and work there. So the thing is, is this is that it’s execution. That is great once again, but it’s that what does that mean to you? How do you execute? Right? A lot of people get lost there to get all the knowledge in and then what does that look like when you execute? So the first thing he showed me, right? was when you learn something, go teach it right away? Go coach it, right. And people go, Well, no, no, I need to fully understand what I’m talking about, I get that. But the thing is, is that you will buy coaching. So every time I would learn something for Tony, that’s why I went to, to, you know, to work for him at his events, because we would learn it, and I would coach it, we would learn it, I would coach it. And that’s the best way to return it to retain it and to see what works and what doesn’t. Right. Does that make sense? Because everybody’s got their personal style. Right? So nobody out there wants another Tony? They’ll never be another Tony. No. But there’ll be other coaches that are as effective if not more, because of what they’ve learned from him. That makes sense.

Zoran Stojkovic: Yeah. With their own unique style. And Bruno, what’s, what’s one practical tool leaders can use tomorrow or today to cultivate the culture of their team?

Bruno Guevremont: Mm hmm. Well, it’s the it’s one of the tenants of leadership’s in the military. Know your people and promote their welfare, that sets it know your people and promote their welfare. You’ll know you’ll never lose, people will follow you into battle.

Zoran Stojkovic: That’s awesome, man. I’m curious about about your company. Tell me about..Do you call it BG?

Bruno Guevremont: It’s Bruno Guvremont. Right. Yeah, totally. Absolutely. So you know, when you go for branding, and for try to create something where people can capture everything that we do, because if you’re me, and you got ADD, and you’re all over the place, and you’re doing all these things, sometimes having multiple companies kind of throws people off a little bit. So I just use me and you know, obviously, as you know, like, just like you, I have a podcast coming, and all that stuff. But the thing is, is this is that my company, what we do upfront is that we are executive coaches, we go into and consultant for companies, we go in, and we do exactly that. We do culture, we train people to what does it mean to them to reach their quotas, and all these things in a human way? Right, the foundation of it. And what is beautiful is that my other side of my work, which is pro bono on paid for is all mental health, Veterans Health, all these things, where I actually go out there and open up the conversation, but I’m going to tell you, that’s the foundation of my work as a consultant, I come in, and I make sure everybody’s mental health is on par. And if not, let’s first settle that up. And then from there, we can build these levels of work to get them to to make sure that your organization is skyrocketing. Right? And that’s the thing because people like, you know, they always want to hear I remember my first few pitches, right? Well, what are you going to do for my bottom line? What are you going to do for my performance? What are you going to do for my quotas? What are you going to do for these target goals? And how come you’re not asking that? Because right now, if even if we ask your staff, what does it mean about reaching this 50,000 a month goal and everything but they’re all struggling with the toxic environment or with something? Why are we shooting that? Right? Because that’s your driver. That’s what your measurement is your metric. But let’s find out how what they how they’re going to achieve that right. General Patton’s set of things is “never tell the guys how to do a thing. Tell them what you want to achieve. And let him Let him try to figure it out. Because most of them will come up with even better ways of doing it.” Right?

Zoran Stojkovic: creativity and supporting that autonomy. You’re supporting that autonomy you’re sharing here, here’s the vision, you find a path. And there’s a lot of different paths, right? Where can people find you Bruno?

Bruno Guevremont:They can find me either at brunoguevremont.com. They can find me on all social media, you know, Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, but right now we’re in November, towards December, I’m rebranding. I’m kind of like cleaning things up and kind of going really to the next level with these things. So a lot of LinkedIn, a lot of stuff like And we’ll we’ll be able to see more videos and more of this thing. But, you know, people like you that are actually going out there and asking the people for their, their secret sauce. This is how we learn, right? We’re not all everybody’s now paying attention to the podcasts and the videos and the YouTube, because people like you and I that are in the dirt in the trenches doing these things, saying, This is how I do it. And, and, and and people are learning. That’s all it is. It’s all about education. It’s all about, you know, that there’s, you know how they say you can’t bring money with you when you die. Well, you can’t bring knowledge with you. Right. Les Brown, a motivational speaker said a very powerful thing he says. He asked his audience what is the most expensive place on earth? People are throwing? Where do you think it is Zoran? I’m gonna ask you actually, let’s play this game. What’s the most expensive place on earth?

Zoran Stojkovic: Most expensive place on earth? I know it’s not gonna be a physical place. It’s gonna be like,

Bruno Guevremont: No no, of course, don’t overthink it. Right, right.

Zoran Stojkovic: Dubai. Yeah. Monaco Dubai, Beverly Hills. Yeah.

Bruno Guevremont: They’ll say you know, some suburbs, some houses, some places, you know, New York and New York, all these places. Actually, it’s the cemetery. Because that’s where all the inventions that didn’t get invented. That’s where all the books that didn’t get written. That’s what all the products that could have helped the cures, and all these things of people that were too afraid, went and died and stayed there.

Zoran Stojkovic: Whoa…

Bruno Guevremont: That’s the most expensive

Zoran Stojkovic: See, I knew it was gonna be something good. [LAUGHER]

Bruno Guevremont: Right? So for me, right, the secret of living is giving that’s from Tony, the secret of living as good as giving is that is that the two needs you must fulfill every day is growth and contribution. So I’m going to learn something and I’m going to give it away. Because anything that I don’t give away, I’m going to take with me and be lost forever. So I might as well teach. I might as well put it out there. Right? Does that make sense? Because that’s the thing. Everybody wants to be an expert. But the thing is, is that you don’t become an expert by wanting to be an expert. Everybody in this world is 7 billion people. They all have a piece of the puzzle. It’s for you to find which pieces fit your puzzle.

Zoran Stojkovic: Oh, man, that is a great thing to end on my friend. Thank you so much for taking the time to share and be honest and vulnerable and share some of these trade secrets with the with the listeners. And I’m so excited to you know, every time we talk and and thanks for taking the time. I really appreciate it.

Bruno Guevremont: Zoran, man, I love this I could do this for hours. And obviously I hope your your audience can slow down the speed because I know that my ADD takes me there and everything. But I guarantee you when I come into your organization, you love that. [LAUGHER] I’m flying 100 miles an hour. So much those were really good questions. You can see very much that you’re switched on to where you actually want to drive the questioning and it’s really really good. So thank you.

Zoran Stojkovic: Thanks. the podcast as well as the guests information can be found on the show www.kizo.ca/podcast.